I saw Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton on television today in Unity, New Hampshire. I think more than ever that Hillary Clinton would make a great VP candidate for Obama. Here are 5 reasons why:
1. What Obama said in Unity today about he and Hillary both being revolutionary breakthroughs in American politics is completely true. Why not have both - the first African-American President, the first woman Vice President - in office next year.
2. I believe Obama will win by a big margin whomever his VP. But Hillary's passion and power as a campaigner on the ticket can make a big win into a victory of truly landslide proportions. Since I'd like to see the Republican party as it currently is demolished - as in, beaten to the point where it can never recover - I'm in favor of any Democratic ticket that can result in a landslide win.
3. The idea that Hillary Clinton as VP can somehow undermine Obama's program - his commitment to change - is nonsense. Not only because their views and proposals agree in so many respects, but because, let's face it, the Vice President only has as much power as the President allows. It's as simple as that. There's nothing to worry about.
4. Along the same lines, the suggestion that with Hillary Clinton as VP, Obama will need a food taster, is unfounded paranoid nonsense.
5. However much some or many of Obama's supporters (not I) may dislike Hillary Clinton, it is an absolute fact that she battled to almost a tie with Obama in the Democratic primaries. This is a powerful democratic ethical imperative to be on the ticket as VP.
So ... there you have it. What I have missed? With what, if any, of the above do you disagree?
34 comments:
I think Hillary as a VP would be a disaster. While a lot of people did vote for her in the primaries, these are generally the kind of people who are going to lean Republican. And, I think she brings a lot of negatives with her, and not a lot of positives. Many people, for rational reasons or not, just don't like her, and you don't want to open the door for Republicans to bring out all those Hillary Clinton attacks they were just waiting to bring.
And, on a fundamental level, I think Hillary Clinton is emblematic of the entrenched political order that Obama is attempting to change. On a policy level, they're not that different, but the way they presented themselves, and the attitude they'd bring to the White House is totally different. Hillary Clinton wants to prove she's tougher than John McCain, Barack Obama wants to point out the fallacy of the toughness John McCain is peddling. It's hard to revolutionize things when you drag the old leaders right back into the White House.
The only thing you missed is the reason Hillary will never be the VP:
Bill
I would like to know, when barack 3 months ago said he don't need Hillary Voter, now Barack is making the Democratic party tell Hillary or better yet forcing Hillary to campaign with Him, now he wants her voter, Barack Obama is an EMpty suite, Has No Agenda, he wants to raise our tax's He voted for the Patriot act. I voted for Hillary now I am going to vote for McCain, if you have to Horrible candidates who do you pick,, the lesser of to EVILS,, The biggest evil who wants a dictator ship, is barack Obama,, What person makes and give him a SEAL
Hitler had a Seal Stalin, had a Seal, Napoleon had a SEal
And I do agree, Barack should get someone else to be the VP,,, This way when he loses. all he has to do is blame him self, a lot of barack, voter really think barack is doing something Even the media still trying to find out what he stands for, they just like the ideal he a black man, and blindly going to vote for him, the counter on him now on how many time he has flipped flopped, but Obama voter will not change, so why are they trying to change Hilllary Voter, ABC New already reported 1/3 to half of Hillary voters are not voting for Hillary, or voting for McCain,,, Soon Barack going to cry and try to a get some kind of affirmative action so they can make him president,,
lordlopkiv -
Vote for whomever you please - but I fail to see how anyone who voted for Hillary Clinton in the primaries would now vote for McCain - their positions have nothing in common (they're opposite on Iraq, a woman's right to choose, etc. etc).
Also, while we're at it - your analogy to Hitler and Stalin makes no sense, and, is alas, an example of the type of ravings that some Republicans are prone to...
First of all your right about differences between Hillary & McCain, but Hillary Lost,, Now Barack Voted on the patriot act, that alot of democrats Don't want even Obama, Obama is an empty suite, Need to get you head out of the clouds, Hillary did lose, We are over it its about Obama and McCain, Now,,Obama wants more tax's He wishes the gas prices go higher, these are comment he said on the news, Obama acting worse than a republican acting like a dictator, and my ,,that come back to you second comment, analogy of Stalin and Hitler, Napoleon , I said They all had there own SEAL's ,, and Obama try's to get away with making his own, That is nothing more than arrogance,,That is why he is not using it anymore, got to much crap for it, Remember what else I said no matter what Obama does,,he could shot someone right now,, people will still vote for him, Show how stupid peaple are, and when Obama ruins this country,,, Everyone going to say they never voted or supported Obama,
That is why I also believe Hillary should not be the VP, for Barack,,
Barack need to do this all on his own, this way if he win he wins ,, but He can not do it with out Hillary voter, but if he loses it will be all on Barack,,their will be a few who will still blame Hillary,, that is people nature, Look on how many Anti blog pages there still of hillary,, that is because for a simple fact her voter are calling the shots, Again ABC NEW reported this week 1/3 to 1/2 Of Hillary Voter will not back barack and vote for McCain, AND GROWING, So when he does lose,, let she all the riots, happen,, and blaming going on, Obama needs a agenda, he has no stance, his health care is a joke compared to Hillary, he not looking out for america best interest just his own.
He has a Minister who is anti american,, and will not denounce him until he was FORCE TO
His WIfe is Bitter Hateful Racist, who trying to create a new persona going on the view.. tabloid show, that does not do it, Micheal Obama is the one in History who has a spin team, that barack gave her to help her clean up her act,
No Candidate wife during a campaign had her own spin Team or public relations team,, LOL what a joke,
Barack Obama own can not control his own team, Jim Johnson, who was working on his team, was involved in the Country wide Scandal. This list goes on for ever,, but like I said, Hillary Voter know who they are going to Vote for, that is the lesser of two evils that will be McCain, ,,,McCain is harmless, congress will keep him in check to a point and after 4 years Hillary can run again with out any problem or excuses from the Democratic Party that blacked balled her,
A lot of barack voter, have no Ideal what is going on until its to late, Barack will say and do anything to get elected,, that is what being reported now and barack voter are standing there in Awh ya he can not do know wrong,,
lordlokipv -
1. First, about Obama's former minister - I don't claim to understand religion (do you?), so I couldn't say what attracted Obama to Rev. Wright in the first place, or why he took so long to sever that relationship. But I take Obama at his word that he never believed the racist or anti-American things that Rev. Wright said. Why do I believe Obama? Because there is no other evidence that Obama believed Wright's racist, anti-American commentary (and, indeed, most of what Wright said was not racist or anti-American).
2. Your calling Michelle Obama a racist is nothing but unsubstantiated name calling - again, a common tactic of vicious Republicans. (And, if you want an analog to Hitler - that's exactly what the Nazis did, too. Call someone a name long enough, paint them with a lie, in the hopes that sooner or later people will start believing it.)
3. You talk about ignorant voters - but, again, most of what you say is sheer, ignorant nonsense. Where did you get that Obama "wishes the gas prices to go higher" - did it come to you in some nightmare you had, or did you just coldly make that up?
Well you really don't believe the truth,,,, The whole world seen the Anti-American remarks it on video, I seen everyone one of rev wright videos, he is very Racist, You really must be clueless,,, No one but no one believes that barack obama,, I deal with truth, you deal with ignoring the truth,, Micheal Obama,, like I said there tons of videos of her remarks, but you love believing the spin the Obama camp puts on what they said about her, that is fine also Denial is how Barack obama is getting his vote,
YOu bring up Hitler & Stalin, about the Seal, A seal barack made stealing it from the united states,, THat Seal is for the President of the united state, Him creating his own Seal, show what kind of person he want to be or he is, Dictator or Elitist,
I am not sure if your trying to convince your self or me, but you not changing anything by ignoring the truth, With Hillary everyone took her words Literally, With Obama His word has 2 meanings, He said this but he meant that!!,, really that how the world works for you, Really as Smart as your profile says you are,, and you Education,, Your Really doing this ha Paul L
The more you say stuff the more fact I can hit you with,, the truth is Very Powerful
I challenge you to provide a link to even one video in which Michelle Obama said anything racist.
You know about YouTube, right?
Post the link here ...
I'll be waiting.
My guess is you won't post anything. That's because you're just making this stuff up.
I will provide you with links and videos of Micheal Obama in doing so once you see it,, will it change your mind, or will You help give excuses for why she said those thing, are you going to say Well she meant this,, or that,, Will you not vote for barack are you just going to blindly vote for him..
I notice, but I'm of course not surprised, that you provide not a single link now.
Do you know how to use YouTube?
My guess is you'll keep talking about videos of Michelle Obama being a racist, but never supply a single link. You know why? Because such videos don't exist.
You've either fallen for anti-Obama propaganda, or made this up all by yourself.
Dr. Levinson,
You know I disagree with you on the Hillary for VP thing, and I'll elaborate in a second, but I'll first say that feeding the trolls is a dangerous game.
The mentally deranged people that populate the Internet, passing along viral smears about Obama, wrapped in the disguise of Hillary bitterness, are best left to rot. This guy LordLokiPV is a Google away from 100s of similar serial blog attacks. The only non-Obama smear among them is his dating profile:
www.plentyoffish.com/member5328130.htm
Hillary would be a terrible VP for Obama because she brings too much baggage to the table. A lot of that baggage belongs to Bill Clinton, but he's a factor. They share the same network of people, and the government is essentially a network of professionals coordinated by key senior leadership in the cabinet and in the National Party.
A Hillary Clinton VP nomination has been shown to do little for Barack Obama in exhaustive poll analysis by some of the best in the business. In fact, there isn't a person out there that seems to change the outcome of an Obama victory by a substantial margin at this point. It would seem to me that the best person to be Obama's running mate would be someone who like Joe Biden, for example, who has some credibility on the international scene and has a real bite when it comes to playing attack dog. He does it better than anyone.
I don't necessarily disagree with your points here, with the exception of #3. I think Hillary seriously undermines Obama as VP and his agenda for change. As I've said before, Hillary is a senior member of the DLC. Her husband was the long time chair. Joe Lieberman was the chair. These people do things the wrong way and Democrats who voted for Barack Obama did so in large part to change that. Moreso, people like me who have worked and donated to elect Obama as the nominee would feel betrayed by a Hillary VP. I don't dislike her, but I don't want her style of governance at the head of the party any longer.
This is a 50 State/Howard Dean/Barack Obama Democratic Party now with a broader, more populist, grassroots support system. Having a prominent DLC member and her husband, the former Chair, keeps this failed organization and its machine members near the seat of power, and it's time for that to change.
BTW...
I found that Paul Valenzuela (LokiPV) set up a page at BarackObama.com and a blog, but it has subsequently been erased. He's a disruptive, attention monger, with an agenda.
http://iowa.barackobama.com/page/community/post/lokipv/gGBmcP
Thanks for the comment (as always) Mike.
On the trolls, like LordLoki - I don't believe in feeding them, either. But I also think it's healthy, once in a while, to flush them out. I'm happy to think that this exchange in InfiniteRegress will provide a record of at least part of the anti-Obama camp's blatant lies.
About Hillary Clinton: Since the VP has no real Constitutional power, I'm not at all concerned by what any of her old style politics would do to undermine Obama's Presidency.
But more than that: I truly think that what's happened in the past year, what's happening right now, shows that Hillary's past has little or no relevance to what kind of VP she would make. This campaign has transformed her. You can see it in the way she delivers speeches. I think that she and Obama are in a profound sense both responsible for this revolution. And I would like to see her a part of this revolution in power (i.e., in a Obama administration).
See, I think that's where we differ. I don't think Hillary Clinton changed a lick. I think she's always been a force to be reckoned with thanks to her organization, attention to detail, bullish management style, and knowledge of the facts.
I think the change that she exhibited in the election was a very calculated one. She was way behind, tried to use Reverend Wright to bang away at people's fears of Obama and his judgement, and then became a firebrand populist once all of that failed. It was her last card to play.
It worked to a degree since she was able to pull out a good chunk of the remaining states, but it was still too little, too late. She realized that this election was about the dissatisfaction with the direction of the country way too late in the game.
I don't lose any sleep over it though, because all the insider talk is about how the horse has long left the barn on a Clinton VP. Her people know it, she knows it, and all that's left for her is paying down her debt, increasing her power in the Senate, and possibly looking for a bigger role in an Obama administration. I would certainly support a Secretary of Health and Human Services post or better yet a Supreme Court nomination, but I don't think anyone is holding their breath for her as VP anymore.
I don't know what's funnier. The fact that you don't think Hillary is hoping that Obama will go down in flames so she can run '12 or that you think Obama will win at all, forget a large margin. This is typical of the Obama fanatics, you guys are going to be facing one major hangover disappointment come November 3rd in the morning.
Anonymous comments are for pea brains.
anon: let's check back here in November, and see who's right ...
Mike: I'll enthusiastically vote for Obama whomever his VP. I just think Hillary would be the best choice.
If that doesn't happen, I'd like to see her on the Supreme Court.
Meanwhile, about whether her change is real or calculated, I guess only time will tell...
I don't know how much you've seen of Poblano (aka Nate Silver) and his analysis of polling data, but it's top notch work.
You might remember that I write for Baseball Prospectus off and on. They're the top metrics based analytical service for Major League baseball and widely credited with being a must-read for MLB front office types. Nate is one of the pioneers of BP and recently outed himself as the creator of fivethirtyeight.com, which does for politics what he's done for baseball. Good stuff.
Also, check out your Twitter account. I followed you recently, and I'm waiting for you to reciprocate!! ;)
:) Will do momentarily!
The first thing that'll happen after Obama is elected with Hillary is VP is she'll make sure that he's 6 feet under. That's what the Clinton's/Bush's do best
Anonymous trolls put reason and intellect 6 feet under, because that's what they do best.
Then you are truely Dumb, that was just the last couple of week,that is on video. you can see that, anywhere,, you must be blind, He said in a interview, I wish gas prices go higher just not so soon,,, are you living under rock all your doing is proving my point when it come to barack you only hear what you want to hear, or See,, ignorant look it up or look in the mirror, then you will see ignorants, al you want to see is what you want, there for there is no point, Most Barack supporter talk non sense I understand you think he is your savior,, he is the second comming, all these comments are ther on google or new,, Not into the YOuTube, like you are, like I said you should be smarter than this with your so called education, barack Obama did say that about the gas, barack obama and the democrats been voting against the Patriot act for the last year or so now Barack voted for it, Barack Obama Campaign manager who was in charge finding a VP did quit because his involvement in the Country wide Loan Scandal, Before the rev: Wright, if Hillary would of Lost I would of Voted for barack, but everything that has happen, with Barack show he is not the kind of man who should be running this country, Paul L look at you thru all these blog pick and choosing, what you don't know it kind of funny been sharing alot of these blog pages on ABC blog, Fact or fact, you are picking and choosing how you want to hear it,
COme on Paul. Really I don't even remotely think I am going to change you, why do you continue hanging on to false assumption of this magic show barack Obama, Next week will be another scandal, and the week after that, and so fourth and so on, week after week then month after month, Yet your going to blind help obama find excuses for his scandals, So when do you believe, or change your mind, when something really bad happens to someone or when he really try's to Destroy this country, blog after blog you only pick and choose what you want to debate, and like I said barack can shot someone on live tv and you will still vote for him, barack work with the slum lord, ryzo or what ever his name in ,that did not make a difference , Rev: wright did not make a difference, Jim Johnson with the loan scandal not making a difference, Micheal obama say, first time she was ever proud of her country does not makea a difference, and don't give that is not what she said, when she said it the second time, every want to forget the first time when said that, the love changing history Don't they, or double standard, think and think, so far other on hear, and AbC news are saying right now how you made no point at all except making excuses, Just like Obama has No accomplishments, that you think he had, and like I said, there the patriot act, he voted for, and so on and so fourth, and yet Nothing, Your even to scared, or find the truth or to stupid, or even worse a third option, you want a criminal to Destroy this country, well he had a good spiritual advisor Rev Wright, but remember, Poll showing Barack and McCain are neck and neck unless you check out MSNbc, then barack is winning by 60% lol what a joke, but CNN and ABC showing neck and neck in the poll but also show, 1/3 to 1/2 of Hillary supporter are going to not vote or Vote for McCain, Hey after you vote for McCain and he loses next time why don't you Elect OJ simpson, since fact you don't want to hear, or COby Bryant who did not rape that guy,
If that isn't a cry for psychological help, I don't know what is. Lack of paragraphs, numerous spelling mistakes, rambling gibberish.
This election victory is going to be easier than I thought.
Keep dreaming that is the best you can say,,, is there anyone on this site that can say barack is not a criminal, or he has a agenda, don't you know, even the media say he don't have an agenda, He has No accomplishments ,, YOur right, Victory going to be so funny, when he loses, If you have not notice barack polls are dropping, lower and lower, it only June, good luck in november..LOL
"No accomplisments"? ...
(laughing), in addition to your other problems, lordlo, I see you apparently didn't bother to read anything on this blog ... If you had, you would have noticed that, just a few days ago, I wrote a piece, and quoted the New York Times, on Obama's co-sponsoring a bill to support and expand Amtrak (which McCain wants to destroy).
By the way - have you found any video of Michelle Obama's "racist" comments?
No?
Didn't think so - because they don't exist, because she hasn't said anything racist.
But keep on raving ... you're another source of hope for all who want to see a new America...
Lordlo, your messages amply demonstrate that 1) you can't spell, 2) you clearly have no idea how to put together a grammatically correct sentence, 3) you have a lot of trouble with your critical thinking faculties, 4) you are one of the few who actually think the Patriot Act was a good idea, and 5) you can't tell the difference between vicious rumors and objective reality.
The conclusion is inescapable:
You are floundering in the shallow end of the gene pool.
If indeed you support McCain, that pretty much guarantees voting for him is undiluted stupidity - pretty much like all your other thoughts.
Obama has very few accomplishments as a legislator or a leader. Co-sponosring a series of bills that never pass isn't leadership, and neither is giving a bunch of speeches. He has a highly partisan voting record, as recorded by the non-partisan National Journal.
McCain, whatever his flaws, has a signficiant track record of working in a bipartisan manner and getting things done. It's a shame that Obama's surrogates have attempted to belittle his military record and his strong record of national service.
Dr. Levinson wants the Republican party destroyed and a one-party system of rule in this country. And he considers himself a civil liberatrian? Another partisan-laced disappointment from a man I originally thought was a free thinker.
Well I was wrong when I said Obama voted for the patriot act, thinking one thing typing something else.
Barack Voted for Fisa bill,, so they can do the wire-Tapping funny about this 6 month ago, when bush wanted this bill renewed, and Obama called Bush a fascist for wanting it, Now Barack Hussein Obama VOTED FOR THIS it bad enough he has no agenda, and is an empty suite, But to call anyone a Fascist, for voting for something and then 6 months later, Decides to vote for it,, Watch how all the Barack Obama Debutant are going to and will justify why Obama is again a hypocrite on everything he does,,, what reasoning barack puppets are going to come up with this now,, tomorrow Barack will say Next this country should go communist All the barack followers will say sign me up he know what is wright, cant wait to here there excuses on this one with the Fisa, this is going to be good, ,,maybe i will more complaints again on my typing, instead of the fact about barack obama
Barry -
"Dr. Levinson wants the Republican party destroyed"
Right
"and a one-party system of rule in this country."
Wrong - and what on Earth gave you that idea? If you had read my blog posts here and elsewhere, you would have seen I want the Republican Party to go the way of the Federalists (replaced by the Whigs) and the Whigs (replaced by the Republicans).
And who would I like to see the Republicans replaced with?
A party that has much more respect for our Bill of Rights and Constitution than most Democrats have shown - a party that would oppose going to war without the declaration required by the Constitution, would not empower to FCC to trample on the First Amendment, etc.
Ron Paul had some of that - and I supported his candidacy for the Republicans (as I support Obama for the Democrats - why not have the best candidates in both parties), until news came out about the racist newsletters released under Ron Paul's name.
It's all here in this blog - you should read it before mischaracterizing me.
"And he considers himself a civil libertarian?"
Yep, I certainly do. And so, by the way, does the Freedom Forum - that's why they put quotes from me in their First Amendment calendars...
Lordlo -
"Well I was wrong when I said Obama voted for the patriot act, thinking one thing typing something else.
Barack Voted for Fisa bill"
And you're wrong, as well, about Obama voting for FISA - he said he supports the current bill, but the vote hasn't yet taken place.
So when I clicked this and saw 32 comments I won't lie- I did expect more than 4 contributors. :-D
I do feel Hillary would be a poor choice as VP- as we have discussed before. I just don't think she brings anything to the Obama ticket.
if they win, she'll try to say it was because of her, and probably continue her smear campaign crap at every turn, and if they lose, she'll sit there saying how she was a much better candidate anyway.
She is a zero sum gain.
as for point 1 professor, it is noble and from the heart, but I'm not sure that it is best politically. there are better politicians than Hillary- who run cleaner more respectful campaigns. Groundbreaking to have a woman in office? sure- but not at the expense of compromising the best person for the job.
for your second point- Hillary unites people all right- she unites them against her. she'll neuter the ticket. I know we disagree here, but She is my senator too, and I wouldn't kick dirt on head if it were burning.
I think the Clintons have a long established history of being anti-constitution and Anti-BOR. I cannot in good faith support them.
I've given up on McCain- he's a train wreck. Plugh knows I have come a long way on Obama, but I still don't know where I sit. The only things I'm sure of lately is who I will absolutely not vote for.
Well, that last paragraph of yours is a big step in the right direction, Mike ... and we'll keep working on ya... :)
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