1. I was wrong when I supposed that Ben might have been the one who shot Rousseau and Karl in Episode 8 (though not wrong at all about Ben's use of murder of innocents to further his agenda - see #2 below). But it was the bad guys on the boat, Widmore's men, who did the deed. Tonight they try to get Ben to surrender by threatening to kill Alex. Ben's tries to outsmart them, by telling them, truthfully, that Alex is not his daughter (and trying to disguise his love for her). Ben's bluff is called, and Alex is shot dead, right in front of his horrified eyes. (Keamy, played with fatal precision by Kevin Durand, does the deed.)
Why Widmore's killers would give up this possible leverage on Ben - even though Ben denied it - is a little surprising. But what is clear, in any case, when Ben says goodbye to his murdered adopted daughter, is how much he loves her. And this sets the stage for what Ben will do once he gets off the island....
2. We already saw some of this earlier this season, with Ben directing Sayid's assassinations of Widmore's men. Tonight we saw how this came to be. The murder of Alex "changed the rules," according to Ben - which presumably didn't include murdering innocent members of your family. Ben is out to kill all of Widmore's associates - and, we find at the very end, Penelope - Widmore's daughter - as well. But Ben, as accomplished a killer as he is, cannot get all of Widmore's people on his own. So he recruits Sayid ... by killing Nadia, Sayid's true love, whom Sayid found and married after getting off the island ... and blaming that killing on Widmore.
We of course do not see Ben kill Nadia. But what possible motive could Widmore have had for killing her? In contrast, Ben had all the motive in the world - he has now enlisted a trained killer, Sayid, as devoted to Widmore's destruction as is Ben.
Superb plotting.
And we also learn something else very crucial at the end of this episode: neither Widmore nor Ben know where the island is.* Why not? Likely because it's shrouded in some sort of space/time continuum distortion.
*(Actually, Jessica just pointed out in the comments that my interpretation of this last scene is likely not correct. Widmore will be searching for the island, Ben for Penny - that's what the two men will be searching for, not both for the island. Still, if Ben is teleporting through space and time off the island, it can't be all that easy for him to get back to, either.)
And that's not all. The smoke monster makes another appearance - apparently at Ben's behest. It seems to kill all the bad guys (but apparently not, according to the coming attractions). And Sawyer is splitting with Locke and heading back to the beach. It was a fine night for Sawyer, by the way - rescuing Claire and trying to protect Hurley from Ben and Locke's plans....
A fine, edge-of-your-seat night for Lost. I've got it on DVR - and liked it so much, I'm going to watch it again right now.
See also...
Further Questions about Lost 4.4: Jack and Aaron, Kate and Sawyer and More about Season Four: Baby Aaron and the Oceanic Six and More About Lost 4: (ii) Michael and Ben, Good and Evil, Alias Echo
1. Lost's Back Full Paradoxical Blast 4.1 ... 4.2: Five Flashbacks and Three Rational Explanations ... 4.3: Thirty Minutes and Big Ben ... 4.4: Kate and ... ... 4.5 Desmond 1 and Desmond 2 ... 4.6 The True Nature of Ben ... 4.7 Flash Both Ways ... 4.8 Michael and Alex ... 4.10: Almost A Dream Come True ... 4.11 Unlocking Locke
and
2. More Thoughts On Lost 4.1: Those Who Went with Hurley and Those Who Stayed with Jack and Two More Points about Lost 4.1
additional discussion of this episode of Lost in 8-minute podcast
The Plot to Save Socrates
"a Da Vinci-esque thriller" - New York Daily News
"Sierra Waters is sexy as hell" - curled up with a good book
more about The Plot to Save Socrates and its time travel ...
Read the first chapter of The Plot to Save Socrates .... FREE!
22 comments:
It hadn't occurred to me that Ben might have been the one to kill Nadia. Or am I forgetting a plot point from an earlier episode?
Thanks for your thoughts on this episode! Here's a link to my recap highlighting the questions answered and new questions raised.
It was a great episode, I didn't think of the Ben killing Nadia but plausible. There was just so much in this episode. I love Sawyer even more after the hurley comment. I need to think more about this episode and I'm sure I'll have more to say
Second thought I don't know if Ben killed Nadia because the killer was watching the funeral and what reason would he have for that. The man was a widmore employee
I completely agree on the idea of Ben having killed Nadia. I was thinking about that this morning. I'm not 100 percent sure, but, then, I never am when it comes to Lost (or BSG)...
All I know is that there was grey matter all over the walls of my living room after I finished watching this last night, deposited there when my brain exploded.
Oh, but I don't think that Ben doesn't know where the island is. what made you think that? he certainly knows how to get there. i think he knows the exact coordinates.
Great comments folks!
1. Ben killing Nadia - I'm not 100% sure of this. I agree with Dawn that Widmore's guy at Nadia's funeral could be evidence that he killed Nadia (and Widmore now has him hunting Sayid). But it's just as possible that this guy wanted to talk to Sayid, and explain that Ben killed Nadia ... And we're still left with why would Widmore want to kill Nadia? If he wanted to kill Sayid, why not just do that in the first place? In contrast, Ben's motivation in killing Nadia would be recruiting Sayid....
2. Amy - Ben says at the end to Widmore that he (Ben) doesn't know where the island is ... Now, Ben could have been lying ... but if Widmore is having Ben followed, Widmore would find this out soon enough...
This show is mind blowing Paul, Let me throw this out there. When Ben woke in the desert It was like when the desmond teleported he didn't know exactly where he was or the date for sure, so maybe he can't control the powers as well as we think. I do believe he knows how to get to the Island. Also the doctor turning up dead is an interesting twist. Maybe it hadn't happened yet on the ship because of the time difference
Dude, how exactly do you know Ben killed Nadia? You're making assumptions and writing it as if it is a fact, and I wouldn't be surprised if you were wrong again, just like you were when you thought Ben's people killed Danielle and Karl. Things aren't always what they appear to be on Lost and you should know better than to make bold statements without all the facts. It's an interesting theory but that's all it is as of now.
:) take a deep breath, skr ... you're absolutely right that I'm just presenting my theories ... you're of course free to agree or not ...
And you can count on me continuing to make "bold statements without all the facts" ... that's part of why all of this is so much fun ....
I have to agree with Paul - I'm completely willing to bet that Ben did kill Nadia. It's twisted as hell, but after the death of Alex, I think nothing will stop Ben from getting to Penny, and this is the beginning of that quest.
I really loved seeing Sawyer step up and play the protector - he's always had it in him, and we usually only get small glimpses of that side of him. Tonight he was in rare form.
Alex. :( That SUCKED.
The insight into Ben's little magic room, the smoke monster and his time/space jumping was also pretty cool. And I also agree that it seems like Ben himself doesn't really know the location of the island, but gets back and forth using his quantum leap ability, which apparently is a little shaky from the looks of it.
We're completely in agreement, Scott.
Dawn - good point, too, about the doctor. He might indeed have washed up on the island from the future .... (nice image)...
And, reading James McGrath's excellent blog post - see his link the 2nd comment - I just had a thought (always a dangerous thing): I wonder if Ben is the smoke monster, which is the form he takes when he travels on, off, and around the island through time? ...
Hi, wow another good one!
Do you think Jack's appendix or whatever is wrong with him is why he is one of them that gets to leave?
So, it's 2005 when Ben gets to Tanzania....what does that mean?
Hmmmm, Ben as the smoke monster. I haven't watched it a second time yet so I don't remember exactly, but wasn't he standing with all of them when Smokey came around the corner of the house?
Why would Ben/Smokey kill Mr.____
(What was his name the African man pretending to be his priest brother) but not.... Danielle for instance?
Speaking of which, I was really shocked she died. I thought she was more in tuned to the island and all it's dangers, and wouldn't get caught off guard like that!
My daughter thinks everyone who isn't an Oceanic 6 dies. I think they just stay on the island....any guesses on that?
And...remember when Juliette first came to the island and got off the submarine kind of doped up, Now I wonder if the sub actually went back and forth at all or if they just drugged her so she wouldn't know she had been teleported.
My dad can never remember Ben's name and always calls him "The guy with the bad eyes" So I thought it was funny when Widmore said something like, 'You standing there with your awful eyes'
Ha, so many mysteries!
quickie on Ben as smoke monster, Sophie: the smoke monster is traveling through time, so that's how it could be Ben, with Ben also standing and watching it...
Ah yes! That pesky time travel component! I forget that it is a possibility. I wish they would use a chair or something to travel so I could remember it :)
;) I like the way you think about about time travel, sophie...
Hey, I know I'm a little late, but I was out of town last week and just watched the episode online. I don't think Ben was saying that he didn't know where the island was. In that final scene—
Ben said he wanted to kill Penelope.
Widmore said, but you'll never find her.
Then Widmore said he was going to take back the island, which was rightfully his.
And Ben said Widmore would never find it (the island).
And then Widmore said "Then I suppose the hunt is on for both of us," meaning I think that Widmore was hunting for the island while Ben was hunting for Penelope. So, I think Ben knows where the island is, he just doesn't know where Penelope is.
Unless there's a different place you're pointing to where Ben said he didn't know how to get back to the island. In that case, disregard everything I just wrote :)
Standing corrected, once again, by one of my sharp, former students :)
You're right, Jessica - I watched the scene again, and it's a tiny bit ambiguous, but the most likely interpretation is what they'll both be searching for is Penny (Ben) and the island (Widmore)...
I'll correct that in my post, and give you credit.
On another, related note: it's fun to think that this puts Ben on a collision course with Desmond ... (Sayid will likely leave Ben and side with Desmond on this)...
OK, I'm thinking no one, not even Ben has much control over the time travel thing.
What we've seen of it so far (which is only Desmond and the dead communications guy, and the rat I suppose) leads us to believe they don't physically leave. Their spirit, or soul or essence or whatever you want to call it seems to leap.
Then we have Ben in the desert. He seems a little shocked or at least foggy on his whereabouts, and needs to ask the date in Tanzania.
watching last night's episode online now!!!!
Oooh, you're right. I didn't think about the Sayid/Desmond drama. That will be some good drama. Wow. I wonder how much of this stuff the writers plan in advance and how much they just luck into by having good characters with thick back-stories.
sophie - you're right about time travel in Lost so far ...
but if we add Farraday into the mix, and assume that his research continues, he may yet develop some sort of controllable mode of time travel - which Ben could be using in his flashforward...
jessica: probably a combo of both (luck and planning)... with luck (taking advantage of situations planned at first for other reasons) being the main factor...
that's certainly how I work when writing my novels...
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